The point of the bunker video was to associate Watchtower's man-made rules on things like not pursuing a music career, not associating with worldly people, etc with survival through the great tribulation. They're trying to make their rules seem more important for survival than they actually are. That way JWs are more afraid of breaking their rules.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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What was the point of the bunker video
by Crazyguy inthey get caught by the bad guys at the end anyway, don't get what thier point is to the video?
of course i haven't seen it all they way either.
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The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.
by Island Man in“who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
- matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.
this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
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Island Man
stillin: Island man, you taught me something! Are you the F&D ?
LOL. I'm not a Christian, far less having been appointed as an apostle or elder to teach the congregation. I'm an atheist, so no, the parable is not directed at me.
No one is THE faithful and discreet slave. It is a parable identity that applies to multiple persons.
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Kevinly Class Activism - Brilliant!
by konceptual99 inthis is great.
i'd love to see this at brighton in a couple of weeks.... "i'm of the kevinly class" or "praise kevin" would be a great way of letting any activist know there are those awake that know what they are doing.
https://youtu.be/ld0-jvn98aa.
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Island Man
I call this method Presinicfin. Preemptive Subtle Information Injection to Combat Future Indoctrination.
I don't think her's was a particularly potent example. Here's an example of a more potent way of using this method:
Let's use as an example, the Watchtower a few years ago that said to be ready to obey any information from the organization whether or not it seems logical from a human or strategic standpoint. Let's say this information is leaked to you ahead of time by an apostate insider.
You look for an example of a cult that mirrors this - a cult that encourages members to accept what the cult says no matter how illogical it sounds. You discuss this other cult with the JW and point out the folly of them blindly following directions no matter if it sounds illogical. You try to get the JW to commit mentally to the idea that it is foolish for religious people to follow illogical directions from a cult. You even point out how the cult skillfully misuses bible texts to guilt the members into following its illogical instructions. You don't mention JWs at all. You don't offer the slightest hint that you're alluding to JWs. You're ostensibly highlighting an example of the folly Babylon the Great. Your goal is to make a lasting impression on their mind that it is foolish and cultish to blindly follow a religious organization even when its instructions seem illogical.
Some days or weeks later when the JW receives and reads the new Watchtower or it is considered at the meeting, the part about being ready to obey any information even if it seems illogical, will react negatively in his mind, with the firmly held idea that was implanted by the prior discussion you had with him. This will produce a strong bout of cognitive dissonance that will tend to cause him to reject the Watchtower instruction as being blatantly foolish and cult-like. He does not even have to remember the specific discussion he had with you. He just has to remember and invest in the idea that you implanted during your discussion with him.
The preemtive and subtle nature of this method means that the JW easily accepts the information you share with him as his defenses are down since you don't hint at any connections with his religion. You're just sharing innocuous helpful information with him which, unbeknown to him, will react negatively in his mind with future information he will receive from Watchtower, resulting in him being repulsed by the Watchtower information, being less apt to accept it and more apt to wake up from the indoctrination.
So whatever insider information is leaked to us before the JWs we use this information to our advantage by having a preemptive discussion with JWs where we implant in their minds, ideas that are at odds with the Watchtower information that will be revealed to them in the future. These preemptive ideas then serve as a kind of inoculation against them blindly accepting the Watchtower information that will be revealed to them in future. Ideally, the ideas we implant should cause a bout of cognitive dissonance in future, causing them to be somewhat repulsed by the future Watchtower information.
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The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.
by Island Man in“who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
- matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.
this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
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Island Man
"I see nothing to indicate a spiritual feeding program assignment in this illustration."
I wouldn't use the word "program". But the parable definitely makes reference the slave being appointed over the domestics to feed them. That much cannot honestly be denied.
“Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? - Matthew 24:45
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The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.
by Island Man in“who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
- matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.
this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
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Island Man
When Jesus asked: "Who is the faithful and discreet slave?" He was not pointing to a specific singular entity that will spring up in the future. He was asking a rhetorical question directed to all who would be appointed to feed the congregation in some way. He was essentially asking them: "Will you prove to be faithful in teaching the congregation wholesome things at the right time?" I think Jesus asked this question in the context of telling his followers to keep on the watch because those appointed to teach the congregation would have a pivotal role to play in helping others to keep on the Watch. This connects back to the householder parable that immediately precedes the FDS parable in Luke. The slave in the FDS parable is the householder in the thief-householder parable immediately before. The householder has to keep on the watch to secure his house against the unannounced thief. The slave does this by feeding the domestics the right food to help them keep on the watch.
So the way I see it Jesus was telling everyone to keep on the watch and then used the FDS parable to give some focused counsel directed to the teachers of the congregation telling them that they have a special role to play in this regard and they had better prove themselves faithful in doing it. That's the way I see it.
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Is Knowing/Using The Name Of God Important?
by Vanderhoven7 ini say no.. although the tetragrammaton appears close to 7000 times in the hebrew scriptures, the personal name of god does not.
seems to me that god made sure that both that his personal name does not appear therein and that no one would ever actually know it or learn even how to pronounce it.
he also made sure that his name (baring 3 hallelujahs in revelation) did not appear in the new testament.
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Island Man
According to the bible, knowing God's name is important. But just what kind of name is the bible actually talking about? Is it knowing the pronunciation of God's appellation, YHWH; or is it knowing the character and reputation of God? I say it's the latter that is really important. Why?
The meaning of God's name is actually a description of his nature. So if you know God's character, you know his name - even without knowing the exact appellation YHWH. Furthermore the bible as a whole does a far better job in giving a complete and thorough description of God's character, than the appellation YHWH ever can.
The meaning of the name YHWH amounts to nothing more than a succinct way of saying that he is almighty and can transform and/or empower anyone or anything to accomplish his will. That's basically what the name means, in simple terms. Every bible believer who has studied any bible - whether it uses "LORD" or "Jehovah" - comes to appreciate this fact about God nature. Thus the Bible as a whole, by its many accounts reveal God's nature - God's name - separate and apart from the actual word YHWH.
Jehovah's Witnesses are being very spiritually petty, focusing on the verbalization of an appellation and missing the point that it is the knowing the meaning of the name - knowing God's character - that is truly the important thing and that every student of the bible using any bible gets know God's character. Their fixation on the need to use "Jehovah" amounts to a silly superstition.
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The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.
by Island Man in“who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
- matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.
this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
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Island Man
Your over thinking it , Luke 12:41 says it's just a parable. What should be more important is how many times the Borg leaders call Jesus a liar!
Yes, it is a parable and I'm not over thinking it. It's Watchtower that's over thinking it. My explanation is very simple, reasonable and in line with the rest of the NT. -
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Why have there been so many people blind to the corruption of the Watchtower Corporation ?
by Finkelstein inbased from many of the doctrines the wts has come forth with since its existence as publishing house which were obviously incorrect or false and propagated doesn't make you wonder why there were so many who embraced this organization with full devotion and acceptance ?
even back in the late 1800's there was scrutinizing skepticism to what the leaders of the wts theologically taught.
millions of people since then have accepted the teachings of a really couple novice bible theologians, who brought forth many weakly supported doctrines such as and concerning that mankind was living in the end times and all of mankind should be prepared for its imminent destruction.. very view other christian based faiths from catholicism or protestantism have made these kind of outlandish doctrinal assertions and they make up an overwhelming greater amount of practicing theologians, to those who achieved a high a level of academic training in bible theory.
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Island Man
Many of the teachings of the Catholic church and others are blatantly false. Watchtower focused heavily on this - the errors of the established churches - thus portraying themselves as the righteous and insightful underdog exposing the corruption of "Big Religion". Many disaffected Catholics got swept away by this Watchtower tactic.
Additionally, Watchtower preys on persons who are largely ignorant of what the bible says, and who lack the ability to accurately interpret and apply scripture. Such persons are dependent on others to explain and interpret the bible to them. So Watchtower explains to them the errors of other churches, thus getting them to distrust the other churches while trusting Watchtower as an insightful and knowledgeable teacher.
So who will use the bible to explain to them the errors of Watchtower - the same churches that they now distrust? They will not listen to them. Will Watchtower expose and draw attention to their own errors? No, Watchtower hides its errors. But even if it did, the JW would see it as evidence of unparalleled honesty and humility and greater reason to stick with Watchtower. So such biblically illiterate persons are left completely at the mercy of Watchtower until they learn the bible well enough through independent and objective bible study. But wait...Watchtower warns against independent bible study, saying it leads to apostasy ... Few are able to escape from the psychological prison that Watchtower creates for its followers.
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The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.
by Island Man in“who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
- matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.
this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
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Island Man
“Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? - Matthew 24:45
Let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every Christian. This is not merely an encouragement for all Christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet. The text says that the faithful and discreet slave is "appointed over" Jesus' "domestics" or his "body of attendants" (Luke 12:42). Thus the faithful and discreet slave obviously refers to one(s) in a position of responsibility or authority over others. Who? Well, who are the "domestics"?
Luke refers to them as being Jesus' "body of attendants". Several scriptures refer to the congregation as being Christ's body. I think it's very reasonable to conclude that the domestics or body of attendants refers to the congregation. Therefore the faithful and discreet slave refers to one(s) having authority over the congregation. Authority for what purpose?
Jesus says their role would be to feed the domestics. Does this not remind you of Jesus' words to Peter: "Feed my little sheep"? Jesus appointed Peter to feed the newly formed Christian congregation. Thus it can be clearly seen that Peter falls within the role of the faithful and discreet slave mentioned at Matthew 24:45. Does it end there? No.
Jesus' direction to Peter: "feed my little sheep" implicitly refers to Peter as being a shepherd. For shepherds feed sheep by leading them to their pastures of food. Who else does the NT refer to as being shepherds, thus showing they have a role of feeding the congregation? Elders. A chief role of an elder is teaching - providing spiritual food. Elders are appointed over the congregation. They are "overseers". Thus elders also fall within the role of the faithful and discreet slave mentioned at Matthew 24:45.
So my conclusion is that the faithful and discreet slave does not refer to a specific group of men serving on a Governing Body at a particular time in history. No. It refers to all Christians living at all times who are appointed to serve as teachers of the congregation. It applies to Peter and the apostles and it applies to elders. It applies to all who are appointed with authority to teach the congregation. So the parable of Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42-46 is an encouragment/warning to all who would be appointed to teach the congregation, to prove themselves faithful and discreet.
Further corroborating this point is the statement in the parable, that the slave will be punished with "the greatest severity" if found unfaithful when the master returns. This matches the scripture in James that say: "Not many of you should become teachers as you would face heavier judgement." We also see that the elders in the congregation - the stars in Jesus' hand - are the ones that Jesus addresses when he counsels the congregations in the opening chapters of the book of Revelation. This harmonizes with the idea that they are the slaves appointed to feed the domestics and have to answer for the state of the congregation. For further evidence, have a read of the scriptures that give the qualifications for elders and contrast it with what Jesus says about the evil slave in the FDS parable.
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Island Man
Very funny strawman satire of atheism.